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| Ducks Ltd. |
The Canadian indie rock duo of Ducks Ltd. comprised of Tom McGreevy & Evan Lewis will be playing this March at the Rickshaw Stop in support of their latest album, 2024's Harm's Way. We had the chance to speak with Tom in advance of the show and you can catch the full conversation below. Tickets for the show are still available at press time here. Hope to see you there!
SFBayAreaConcerts: Well first things first, congratulations on being nominated for the Polaris last year—although I guess that's not too surprising given how good Harm's Way is.
Tom McGreevy: Thanks! Yeah, that was a nice surprise. I feel like we have a funny thing where it always feels like people are more interested in us outside of Canada than in Canada. So getting it was like: Oh cool—people are listening to it!
SFBAC: There are “Gleaming Spires” and “Cathedral City” in your songs, and your cover art is heavy on trees and bushes. What is it about the intersection between architecture and the natural world that's so interesting to you?
Tom McGreevy: I feel like it's part of the iconography of jangle pop in a lot of ways. We're obviously engaged in a lot of stuff that we like and those are kind of the aesthetics that they're doing. It's just it's a fun language to tap into. It's an artistic thing that's also extremely technical and functional, and I find invoking that kind of technical thing to be sort of an interesting way to write.
SFBAC: So speaking about influences, I was thinking quite a bit about some of the covers you guys have done; in terms of "Head On", you really brought the Ducks Ltd. sound to that song. Between Jesus and Mary Chain and Pixies I feel there's a lot of history going on with that song. What made you decide to tackle that track?
Tom McGreevy: Yeah, I mean I feel like there was a couple things about it. I am a Jesus & Mary Chain fan—always have been. I've often felt about that if you remove all the fuzz, all the aesthetics, it's just good power pop. It's just good songwriting—that's the core of it. And then, yeah, Trompe Le Monde is probably my favorite Pixies record. So good. I just feel like they kind of get out there in a weird way on it. I think it's one of the coolest sounding Pixies records. And that cover is on it, and it sort of makes the point for me a little bit. I was like, “Oh yeah, that's what I was trying to say about how these [JAMC] songs work.” In covering it: Our cover is definitely a cover of the Pixies cover. That's kind of how we're approaching it; but we're never going to sound like that for a billion different reasons. So it was, it felt natural to take it on and do it in that way, but it also was very easy to construct in our style.
SFBAC: Very cool. So staying on the covers tip, I love the version of the Cure’s “In Between Days.” There are moments on “Harm's Way”—that keyboard outro in “A Girl, Running” which just lingers for a minute, like “Just Like Heaven.” Can you talk a little bit more about your influences and what's inspired your sound?
Tom McGreevy: Oh yeah. I mean we love The Cure. The Cure definitely a really big one for us. Actually, when we recorded the record, we had tickets to the see The Cure in Toronto. The dates that it fell on for us to do the recording in Chicago meant that we had to miss it. Me and Evan bought those tickets together—it was such a bummer! We weren't able to transfer those tickets, so I think we gave them to somebody and that felt nice. Missing a Cure show—best reason to do it I guess is making a record. He's one of the best songwriters, ever, probably. Robert Smith: He’s so good, so cool. He's played with so many different styles. I feel like it's the gold standard of what alternative pop songwriting could be, or what guitar based pop songwriting could be. He's managed to sort of live in this left field space while still making broadly accessible music for decades. So yeah, I dunno. I think he's really cool—I really like him a lot. He's the man!
SFBAC: That's very cool. Are there any other bands that just spring to mind in terms of influences in your sound?
Tom McGreevy: Yeah, I mean there’s a bunch of that stuff. Evan is a huge Go-Betweens fan, which led to me becoming a fan as well. (Not quite on Evan's level, but I do like them very much.) A lot of the Sarah Records stuff and the Postcard [Records] stuff—that’s things that we're really into. I think one we don't talk about that often, but Field Mice are probably one of those. I think the reason, and we kind of don't do it as much anymore, but the reason that drum machines were a core of our sound is definitely in part influenced by what those guys were doing with Dr. Rhythm. So those are things that definitely things that sink in there. And then, Tom Petty also, he's great.
SFBAC: Tom Petty's originally occupied this insider outsider position. I think it's cool that now his sound fits into so many different places: It could be new wave, it could be straight up rock and roll. There are even psychedelic moments to his sound.
Tom McGreevy: I mean, the thing that I really like about him, or one of the many things I really like about him, is that the building blocks of his sound is so simple but he has all of these things that are so distinct that he does. To carve out a thing that feels that unique; what you're doing is sort of this fundamental guitar pop; it’s really impressive. It is fun to listen to some of his bad records—um not bad records (well, some of 'em are bad)—his unloved later records. I got really obsessed with “Echoes;” It's a divorce record from the early 2000s. And it's cool in that it's like: A) He's kind of still got it and B) In this really ugly production environment his fundamental Tom Petty-ness still comes through. There were all of these little kind of vocal melodies, these little step ups where it's like: Oh, only he would do that! And, you couldn't do it, because if you did it, it would just sound like you were doing him. It's really cool that he just never really lost that. There are great songs on that record. It's very the opposite of [Elvis Costello’s] “Imperial Bedroom” where it's a divorce record that's completely not bitter or upset—no, it is upset! He's just really, really sad and in a kind of reasonable way. It's a good record.
SFBAC: That's awesome. So in a world of Spotify, YouTube and Bandcamp, it feels like we're seeing less seven inches out there. There's a world where both of these covers and “Grim Symmetry” would make fantastic b-sides. Just wondering, why did you decide to drop “Grim Symmetry” as a standalone single? I could see you doing one of the zillion “Harm’s Way” songs as a seven inch and having that as a really cool b-side.
Tom McGreevy: I mean, I think it's hard for record labels to sell. If our label had wanted to put it on a seven inch, we would've been like: Totally, sure—that sounds great! But I just don't think they thought it was a good idea. There's been a few off-cuts I guess, or b-sides; songs that we thought were pretty good, but just didn't really fit on the record for one reason or another. So, we're happy to put 'em out. Yeah, I mean I think the covers, there is a plan to release those in a physical format one day. We've got a bunch of other stuff we're working on, it's just always hard to make doing those the focus, because we've always got other stuff going on. Ultimately when we're sitting down to do stuff, we always are kind of more excited to work on our new songs. Well, not always—sometimes it’s fun to do a cover, but those [new songs] just that normally take priority. But we have a bunch cookin’—some that we've done live on some radio sessions, and stuff that we're working on formal versions of. There’s a Tom Petty one. There's some other stuff. We've got this one Sisters of Mercy song we're trying to do. We haven't figured that out.
SFBAC: Oh amazing—that’s cool!
Tom McGreevy: I kind of realized with early Sisters: Basically if you sang that an octave up and sped it up like five bpm, it just sounds like a Sarah Records band. Even the songs are kind of the same idea. Think about "Marian", that song makes total sense as a Field Mice song!
SFBAC: Nouvelle Vague do a great cover of Marian!
Tom McGreevy: Yeah, there you go! Well then those guys are obsessed with doing covers too, right? It's like lot of Sisters covers out there. Speaking of the heroes, that guy's cool.
SFBAC: Absolutely. It’s interesting that they’re still touring right now and not releasing really any new music. Although, you could go onto YouTube and see a few new songs here and there…
Tom McGreevy: Apparently he's got a lot of stuff. He's just not putting it out. He is preserving his legacy; but apparently he's got a bunch of stuff. That's what I've read that somewhere—we’ll see if it ever comes out. They said that about Prince too…
SFBAC: Harm's Way, Modern Fiction, Get Bleak: Are you going to be continuing with the two-word album and EP titles for the foreseeable future? Or is that just kismet—what’s going on there?
Tom McGreevy: Oh no. Yeah, we're doing that deliberately—thanks for noticing. I feel like that doesn't get noticed that often. I think the goal was we'll be trying to keep everything kind of in that way, kind of like the Go Betweens did. And then at a certain point we're going to break it and that's when you know that we've fallen off. [Laughs] When the album covers change and it's got, like a five word title, that's when you know that we just we're fucked. It's shitty—don’t buy that one. That's going to be the moment.
SFBAC: Obviously people are going to buy it immediately to see what's happening, so there you go.
Tom McGreevy: Yeah, I dunno: I think the goal is to hopefully stick around long enough that eventually we make an embarrassing one.
SFBAC: I love it! Get Bleak is listed as an album on Spotify versus an EP. I know, obviously, when you moved those songs over to Carpark and added the extra tracks it got expanded—but it's still around 20 minutes. Do you consider that to be an album or is it just Spotify putting things on there the way they want to?
Tom McGreevy: Yeah, I think of it as an EP still. I guess our albums aren’t much longer than that [laughs], but yeah, I mean, it doesn't bother me. We didn't do that intentionally. I don't think I was aware of that until right now. But yeah, I think of it as an EP. It was a distinct four-song thing, and then we put some other songs on it from around the same period that I think make sense as the opposite side of it. But, it was never intended to be an album on our end—we never thought of it that way.
SFBAC: It was really cool for you to contribute “Always There” to the “Love Los Angeles” benefit compilation from Hit the North. Have you spent time in Southern California? Do you have friends or family or associates in Southern California? What's your relationship down there versus just trying to help out?
Tom McGreevy: I think Tom Churchill, who runs Hit the North, is a friend and he asked; and of course we would say yes—we were happy to do it. Yeah, we definitely have a lot of friends there. I'm actually going on Monday to LA. It’s a very tragic situation. There were a lot of places that I know very well that no longer exist because of that fire. A lot of people I know who have lost a lot. It's brutal. It is nice to see people coming together and helping each other out, which seems like people are doing. And obviously happy to help if we can.
SFBAC: There are a few Ducks songs that use acoustic instrumentation, but “Heavy Bag,” especially the first half, really makes me feel like there should be a fully acoustic Ducks release at some point. Is there any world where maybe this might come out; an EP or something? I feel like it's screaming to happen.
Tom McGreevy: Yeah, I dunno. I'm kind of interested in it too, actually. We've done a couple sessions that way, and I think they were interesting. Yeah, maybe—I don’t know. I like that idea. We've never really talked about it formally. I think we're always just trying to do the next thing, but that would be kind of a fun thing to try. Yeah, I think there's enough distinction between the way we play things live and the way we play things on the record that it feels like, (and I think we like the way that those distinctions exist), that it would be kind of fun to just keep iterating on it; but it also feels a little bit like naval-gazing, so I don't know.
SFBAC: I get it. I get it. Over time, the dynamic changes with the number of songs in your catalog. The Church did something really interesting: They released a series of albums that you're probably familiar with in acoustic versions; but they completely changed them up entirely. It wasn't just slowing down tempo or adding a little mandolin—they would completely deconstruct them, and they did that from an acoustic standpoint. I think that was really cool. But that was probably after they had released eight albums or something like that.
Tom McGreevy: Yeah, it's an interesting idea. I feel like I often hear things like that and think they're cool. It's finding that different version of something that makes it click for you, or whatever is always an exciting experience. Open to the idea for sure.
SFBAC: Rickshaw Stop is a really fun place and embodies some of the cool quirkiness of San Francisco venues. What are you looking forward to being in The Bay, and is there any particular favorite music places that you have? What are you looking forward to doing while you're in San Francisco?
Tom McGreevy: We're definitely really excited to go back to Rickshaw—that’s a great spot; we played there last year with Mo Dotti. It was awesome—great room. That was one of my favorite shows that we played on this album for sure. It was, I dunno, it was one of the first times where we were playing a headline show in North America and it was like, “Oh shit—people came!” It felt crazy, but yeah, [laughs] it was cool. Some guy was smoking weed in there, which is really funny. I felt like that was a very…I don’t know, I hadn't seen anyone do that at a concert in a while.
SFBAC: Very San Francisco.
Tom McGreevy: I was like: That's a strong move! But yeah, I always just having a nice time walking around. I feel like last time after we sound checked we had some time and I just wandered for a couple hours and checked some places out. I’m intrigued to know it more. Every time we've played it's been like: We're coming from LA and we're going to Portland, and we got to get on the road so we don't get to spend that much time there. So I'm hoping that we manage to spend a little bit more this time.
SFBAC: Well just remember San Francisco is 7 x 7 so you should very easily be able to make your way around it. If you're ambitious and you give yourself one day, you can figure out all the good stuff; make sure you're getting the right burritos, make sure you're swinging by amoeba.
Tom McGreevy: Oh man—yeah, I got a crazy burrito there a couple times ago. Yeah, give me the tips. I'm into it!
SFBAC: You got it. I am a baseball obsessive myself, and “The Main Thing…” It's interesting because in Philadelphia Jalen Hurts [Philadelphia Eagles quarterback] said “Let’s keep the main thing, the main thing.” The idea is focusing on the main thing, obviously being the Super Bowl. But in baseball there’s the idea about the middle reliever, something heroic about connecting the closer and the starter, and all that kind of good stuff. Was there a specific person you had in mind with that song, or just kind of experiencing the idea of being like: Alright, this guy's got to fill in some time, whether it's just three outs or whether it's three innings—the glory's usually not there.
Tom McGreevy: Yeah, I think that's the thing. It was more about the sort of un-glorious anonymity, the forgettable bullpen guys and what they mean. I feel like it's such a weird existence. You read things about it, the culture of bullpens, they're all completely insane and they're all having a hard time, it seems. But I think there's something about that where it's like, yeah, I know it feels like more than almost any other kind of professional athlete, a middle relief pitcher is just doing a job, is clocking in, clocking out; rarely does anyone remember who they are. And I think that's the part of it that I thought was kind of interesting. Or relatable. I guess
SFBAC: You guys have talked before about the [Ducks, Ltd] guitar sounds, and some of the ways that you've been orienting some of your pedals; but I want to talk for a minute about the drumming. There are these tight fills, and these almost kind of rat-a-tat rhythms; but also sometimes there'll be points in a song where the drums will drop out or become sparse—it’s just a really interesting approach. When you come to create a song, are drums part of the development of the song, do you figuring out melodies and the go into rhythms?
Tom McGreevy: It's kind of different song to song. I think sometimes, normally, we will have most of an arrangement demoed with just something really basic beat-wise. And then we'll start playing with it and building fills and switch. And sometimes if something feels like it isn't working, then normally one of the first ways to solve that is: What if we just change the drums around? What if we switch it and maybe that unlocks it—maybe that does it. It's also, I think, dictated by when we're demoing, it's all drum machines; it's the kind of drum machines we like, and what sounds good on them. So, on most of the kinds of drum machines we like, the toms sound awful, so we just don't use 'em. And the hi-hat sound really cool and the crash sounds kind of weird—it’s mostly just trying to find a way to make a [Roland TR] 707 snare get pride of place. How do you make that really objectively great sounding thing be a thing that you're focusing on? I think it's the best drum machine ever made! I think that they're great—they sound more like a drum machine than any other drum machine. Somehow they're like that essential drum machine.
SFBAC: Fantastic. Thank you for being so generous with your time. Really appreciate it.
Tom McGreevy: Sounds good. Yeah, thanks a bunch man. Have a good day!
